The Impact of Hearing Loss on Family Relationships

Welcome to This Week in Hearing. I’m Gael Hannan, author of – with Shari Eberts, Hear & Beyond: Live skillfully with hearing loss. This week we are talking about the impact of hearing loss on family relationships. And our guests are Tamra Dale and her son, Austin Dale. Tamra is a former finance executive turned CFO, chief flourishing officer to her three children. Tamra has had a challenging hearing journey. So hello, Tamra, and hello, Austin. All right, let’s just jump into it. Tamra, your hearing loss first became noticeable to you, I believe, in your 30s. And before you have kids, tell me a little bit about how it started. Right. So basically, I would notice that I would turn on the TV, and it was really loud. So I would turn it down, and then throughout the day, as I would go about my day, I would be turning up the volume, but not really realizing I was doing that. And then I would turn off the TV, and then the next day or the next time I would turn it back on, it would be really loud again. And I would ask my husband, you know, is the TV loud to you? He says, yeah, it is loud to me. And so that finally is what brought me in to go get my hearing tested, because it didn’t seem like a normal thing. Wow, okay, so did you worry about that hearing loss? I mean, with your diagnosis, hearing loss, and as you were starting your family, did your hearing loss worry you at all? You know, not as much as I think it should have. So it didn’t keep us from starting a family or anything like that, because I didn’t have trouble at the time with small group interactions or one on one, like, you know, you’re gonna sit across the table from someone. I had no trouble in those circumstances. So having children, it didn’t keep us from that. Also I got some sort of mixed reassurance from the audiologist in that they said that my hearing loss was not bad enough for the current hearing aids to work. Remember, this is 25 years ago, 30 years ago. So they said it’s not bad enough, or the technology is not yet good enough. So you know, not that you ever want your health to get worse, but we were looking for that nexus that was to come. So I was really hoping that the technology would catch up in some way. So that was my hope, you know. That was about the time when technology was really booming. And so you were aware of that, whereas. With me, I – having hearing loss all my life. I’m profound and progressive. The worse it got well, there was better technology all along the way. I know when I was expecting my child, I was 40, and I was nervous because my hearing loss, I lived with it. I knew what it was like to live with it. So I was worried about not harming my child with my hearing loss. But he’s 28, six foot seven, so clearly he survived whatever worries of him. So. Austin. Hi. Do you have hearing loss as well? I do not. Okay, well, I say congratulations, but you know how I mean that, so that’s good. Now Austin, I understand that you were homeschooled, which means you spent a lot of time with your mom. How did you feel about that? Not so much about the homeschooling, although you can comment. But with regards to her hearing loss, was that a challenge in spending all that time with her? I think in hindsight, it’s much easier to say it was a challenge in hindsight, because at the time, I didn’t really interact with many other people in that manner that I did with my mom because I was being homeschooled. So I never really understood that my relationship with my mom was different in that way. But I recall a time. So, basically, the way that it was set up for our, where we would have schooling is me and my twin brother would be in one room, and then down the hallway, basically would be where my older brother was doing his schooling. And I remember early on, it was I would try to call my mom from the other room, which was not particularly far, but I remember I would, like, shout and she wouldn’t hear me, so I’d have to go into the other room to go get her, which I didn’t understand at the time was not a normal thing. But I think in hindsight, that’s something that is to be noted. Right. Did you learn that you needed to get your mother’s attention if you wanted something from her? Shes actually very good about figuring out what problems we’re having and things like that. But if it was something like, related to schooling and she’s in the. In the other room or anything like that, it was much harder for her to see that there was a problem because she wouldn’t be able to hear what was happening in our room. So we might be like this problem’s, like, super difficult, or whatever. Me and my brother, like, complaining about it, and then she’s. I don’t know, making tea or something in the other room so she can’t hear us, so we’d have to go get her. Yeah, I think that was, you know, in hindsight, there was a lot more accommodation than I realized that we were making. So for example I would So let me backtrack a little bit. I think one of the things that prompted me to go get my hearing checked again was this idea that around corners or overdose. Bigger, longer distances, you know, like at a museum or, like, our house at the time had a very large room with no walls. It was harder for me to hear. I could tell that someone was speaking, and I could tell you who it was, but I couldn’t always tell you what words they were using. Right. So there wasn’t true communication, and so so that kind of thing also just little things, like when we would have our lessons, I would position our computer in our chair such that I was, like, in a corner so I could hear better. But I didn’t. It wasn’t conscious, I don’t think. It was just. I just knew it worked better. And looking back, I think it was an accommodation that I learned to make for myself, that they would talk to me and the sound would echo off the back. There were no sounds coming from the back except for them, you know, that kind of thing. I think there was more of that positioning than I realized that I was making at the time. This is, looking back, it’s fascinating how we adapt and something works, as you said, so we keep doing it, and it’s, you know, we people with hearing loss, we don’t hear through walls or around corners. Like you said, we hear the sounds, but because we’re not catching the high frequency consonants we’re just getting more the vowels, which is made with the voice. So we’re not understanding. Or hearing, but not understanding. So that’s very typical. So, Tamra, tell me you’ve mentioned a few things, but maybe not just about homeschooling, but what other major challenges or challenges have you or did you experience being a mom of several children? Well, I think having several voices to sift through, knowing who was speaking to me when it was face to face or in a really small group, it wasn’t necessarily a problem. But, like, because we schooled them at home, we were able to do really fun things, like incorporate lessons with a museum or some other kind of outing, which meant wide open spaces. And so I learned to be with maybe other families who are like minded, and we would just be able to work together to sort of corral the kids and whatnot. And I know also this is not kid centered, but it is family centered. Like, my husband and I shared a home office, and just the way that the desks and everything in our computers were situated, our backs were to each other. And without being able to see his face, I didn’t realize how much I was missing until I got my hearing aids, finally. And so that was also something that. Right, exactly. And so I think that kind of, like, you can talk to each other, but you’re not truly communicating. And that was something that you don’t know how much was missing until you get it back. Exactly. Austin, whenever your mother got no hearing aid, did you find that? Cause they were so loud for her. Did she go, don’t speak so loudly, you put them. Well, yes. And on top of that, even to this day, a lot of the time I’ll drop something. Or, like, specifically, I remember one time I was, like, walking to my room, and I, like, dropped my water bottle, and she ducked for cover, basically. And it was like, I understand why. It was just really funny. But I remember when she got her new hearing aids, as of recent one she heard things a lot better. So she would, like, almost experiment with me. So she’d be like, sit, like, facing this way, like, facing your computer and try to talk. Cause the way that my computer’s situated in my room, it’s basically, I’m looking the exact opposite of where the door is. So she’d be like, say something and try to talk, and then Or, yeah, and I would talk, and she would be like, “oh, my God, I can hear you.” And then she’d, like, experiment, like, multiple times, seeing if she’d get a different result each time. And so that was something that I was like, that’s weird. I didn’t know that that was something you experienced until this moment. Also I found, in kind of a funny way, she has it set up so that her hearing aids when she’s When we’re driving, that the, like, Google maps or whatever will go into her hearing aids instead of into the car. And so a lot of the times I’ll say something, she’ll be like, can you repeat that? It told me to turn. And I’m like, that’s funny. Well, and you do this with all good humor. Obviously, you’re very supportive of her. Do you find sometimes that you’re over supported, that you might want to answer for her if you think she hasn’t heard something someone else is saying? Are you protective of her in that way? I think, yes, that a lot of the times I will do that, but generally, just as a person, she’s very independent. So I found that trying to answer for a lot of the time, I’ll either say something wrong and she’ll have to correct me, which defeats the whole point, or she’ll just want to say it herself, which is completely valid. One specific example, though, that I find myself wanting to answer for her a lot is through things like drive thrus or for when we’re signing into appointments at the doctor’s office where you can’t see face to face. So if, like, we’re wearing, the doctor will be, like, wearing a mask and he’ll ask a question, I’ll find myself answering a lot because I know that that’s a difficult situation for her. And same thing for the drive thru, too. And that works. If, and because, your mother gives you permission to do that. So I know sometimes if someone has said something to me and I either didn’t hear them say it, my husband will say, oh, you’ll have to speak up. Or she has hearing loss, which is fine except that I like to be the one. To say that I have hearing loss. My husband, whom I call the ‘Hearing Husband’, he hasn’t done anything wrong. It’s just me and that independence and wanting to be in control of the situation. So it’s a matter of finding that balance between I need you to help me on other times so I can do this myself. Thank you. So it’s finding that balance, which you, too, clearly have done. Yeah. Yeah. Are your siblings as supportive and as wonderful as you are, Austin? I would actually argue that they’re just as good as me, if not better. In a lot of situations. I feel just generally, I’m more of a dependent person than both of my brothers. So a lot of the time, I feel they’ll jump in more than I will just because I’m not really the type of person to start up a conversation rather than just, like, join in on one. So specifically, my older brother has been, like, ordering for everyone at drive thrus for much longer than I have. This has been more of a recent thing for me, whereas he’s been doing it for, like, years and years, even. So he started at, like, maybe 13-14, whereas I only started when I was, like, 16-17, maybe when the older. Brother went to college. Wow, and you’re going to. So you’re the youngest, Austin, are you? Well technically, I’m the middle child, but it’s because I am a twin with the other youngest, and I’m 1 minute older than him, which I won’t let him live down, but, well. I do I understand that those one extra minutes are really important in family dynamics. Every time we get ordered by age, I’ll always go in front of him. And because my first name starts with an ‘A’ and his starts with an ‘H’, I’ll also go in front of him when we do, like, name order, and I will never let him live it down. Never. Oh, well, that’s like a whole other podcast interview. It’s wonderful. Tamra, you said something. I read that you said there is a natural distancing in your relationship with hearing loss. Can you tell me a bit about that? Yes. So. So one thing that I really wanted to, this is something I more wanted to avoid, which is that, you know, when. When you can’t hear and you can’t communicate and you don’t get jokes and you can’t, you know, sort of be part of a conversation, there tends to be a natural sort of you know, dis-inclusion, you know, so, like, maybe people are going to go have lunch or go on an outing and, you know, and maybe because it’s difficult for you to be there, maybe you don’t get invited or because, you know, it will be awkward for you. You don’t make an initiation to like, hey, let’s go do this. Go do that. And so I think it’s one of those really terrible feedback loops where you just get into this. This state of not communicating, and then you don’t communicate, and it feeds. On itself. And I think that’s a. It’s. It’s not only just sad, but it’s also just bad for you. It’s bad for your brain, it’s bad for your soul, you know? And so I really wanted to make sure that that there was a positive feedback loop with myself, my friends, and, you know colleagues of various kinds that, you know that I am included, because it is just sort of better for everybody to be included. So I just didn’t want that to happen. That’s a wonderful realization to have, because we sometimes become isolated without realizing it on one extreme scale. End of the scale, we might stop doing things. We might stop playing cards. We might stop going to church, if that’s what our thing or whatever. We avoid that. But then, on the other hand, we do all those things, but we still let things go, and we go into bluffing mode, and we. And it’s very, very frustrating. So clear that you use a variety of strategies to stay involved. Like, if you went for lunch with your friend, conversation gets away from you as it does. It’s just you say something by the time you turn to that person speaking. So I congratulate you on being very aware that this happens often at a subtle level. And to pull out of that, it’s. Very helpful, too, to be upfront with people about hearing loss. And I know that during COVID I carried a little sign with me that said, hearing impaired. If you’re wearing a mask, please speak loudly. That kind of thing. Because it wasn’t the time to be proud. You know, I needed to make sure that the communication was clear. And, like, I’m on two different nonprofit boards here in my neighborhood, and, like, just for example, yesterday a group of ladies went to lunch. Two ladies are resigned from the board, and we have the new members. So we had lunch, and they knew that I prefer to sit in the corner, so there was no issue about, oh, well, you know, Tamra, when she gets here, she’ll sit here. And so it’s just. It’s very natural, and there’s no cause. They want me to be there, you know, and I want to be there. So there’s a So it’s a real natural way to foster your friendships and foster relationships. And it’s also destigmatizing hearing loss. Every time we’re open about a situation that is challenging for us, it is educating other people and those little nuggets of information. So this has been great. But before we close off, I wanted to ask both of you, what advice would you give to other families going through a similar situation? And it doesn’t matter, Austin, that you’re still a young man. It can happen in later years when But dealing with hearing loss in a family. Any advice of something we haven’t covered yet? I guess I can go first. For me, I found that generally with hearing loss specifically, you have to really, like, put effort into understanding the other person’s perspective both ways when it comes to everything. So one time I might be upset because I need help with something, and she can’t hear me. I have to get up and go across the house, which will annoy me and the moment. But then thinking back on it, I’m like, oh, that’s okay. And I’m sure a lot of the time, just the same, you’ll, like I’ll answer for you, or like, I’ll need you, or I’ll be upset at you for something that isn’t your fault. And I think there has to be a mutual understanding both ways that that’s something that you need to just kind of work through together rather than, like, combat each other over it or to it. Just having that understanding and patience with each other will help the relationship flourish to a point where things like that won’t happen as often. And when they do happen, it’ll be much more like, you’ll understand each other a lot more, which, in a way, brings you closer together than, I would say, a group that doesn’t have to go through those conflicts together. The beautiful insight. Thanks for sharing that. Thank you. And, Tamra? Yeah? I think basically, I think a word that you used a few minutes ago is a really great one, which is destigmatizing. I think the, so the advice I would give is, if you suspect that you or a loved one, or even someone that you are a colleague with, that you don’t live with, has hearing loss, that just sort of approach it with, like, a warm, calm curiosity, let them know and that it’s okay. You know, I really, like, I’ve said to myself, if I had a magic wand, I would wave the magic wand, and hearing aids would be such a part of life, like glasses, right. We’re not generally embarrassed about wearing glasses, and I think the same should be true of hearing aids. If we need help, we need help, and anything that helps us be closer to ourselves and closer to the people around us that we care for and love, I think it’s, you know, it’s just we should do those things. So I think that would be my best advice. And what fabulous advice it is too. I really can’t say anything more than that. Thank you so much to both of you for taking time and sharing this, because it really is something that people need to hear, and you shared it so beautifully. So thank you very much, Austin. Good luck at college next year. Tamra. Just keep on shining that light the way you do, and thanks. Thank you so much. Bye bye. Thank you.