Brandon Sawalich Reflects on 30 Years at Starkey and the Future of Hearing Care

Welcome to this week in hearing. Hello, I’m Bob Traynor, your host for this episode. And this is an interesting episode. My guest today is Brandon Sawalich, president and CEO of Starkey Technologies. And I understand, Brandon, that you’ve kind of been around a while now, and this is, this year is your 30th anniversary in the hearing industry. Yeah, it’s 30 years here at Starkey. When you’re having fun, time flies. But most of my life I’ve been around it. But yes, at Starkey it’s been a great ride. Well, most of us know that you grew up in the household of Bill Austin, the founder of Starkey Technologies. But I also understand that it was either the hearing industry for you, or it was astronaut. And one of those two things a little bit dichotomy there, but Yeah, a little bit. Yeah there wasn’t a time, really, that I could remember growing up. I grew up in southern Illinois. And then my grandmother pat Manhart was in the industry, or started the industry, 1959. My mom and dad got into it in 1983. And then you know, when my mother and Mister Austin got together, 1990 or so, 91. Yeah as far back as I can remember, it’s been hearing aids. And I. It wasn’t really a career that I thought that I was going to go in by any means. I was going to run far away from it. And yeah, I had dreams of being the astronaut. Well, don’t we all agree? Dream of being something that maybe doesn’t end up being what we really want it to be. But the deal is that you’ve been so successful, and I, they took, taking Starkey from quite a place and bringing it really back into the forefront of one of the major manufacturers worldwide. But I bet there were some pretty interesting dinner table conversations that you were witnessing at one time or another. Probably as a teenager, that was not even interesting at all. It was like let me out of here. But then as a little bit further, I got maybe this is interesting. And then went into being fascinating. So, yeah, growing up, it seemed like breakfast, lunch and dinner and vacations, too. There was always discussions. But yeah, I mean, as a teenager, you’re more concerned, what am I going to do? What am I doing today? And tomorrow, and you’re not thinking that far ahead. But as I, you know, then I came to Starkey in 94. It was a summer job. It was going to be just a quick summer job before I went to my second year of college. And loved it so much. You know, my first job was all make, repair ear molds and, and sorting out old waxy hearing aids. And it was kind of my definitely my introduction into full shells, cics and canals and all the makes and models. And then we were doing. Starkey was doing tippinet classes at the time when first came out with the cics. And I just kind of. I fell in love with it. I loved it and wanted to just keep working. So I thought I would do a skip year. And 30 years later, I’m still in my skip year. Well, and there’s nothing like starting out with earwax and cleaning hearing aids and all that kind of stuff to kind of give a guy a little bit of the perspective when you’re at the top. Some perspective for those guys that are kind of doing that these days. And so it wasn’t too many. Areas of the company I haven’t worked at in a while where, length of time where it gave me perspective and under understanding, you don’t know you’re learning. And I’ll say absorbing that information because I remember, you know, just dumping boxes of hearing aids out on a table and just sorting them out. But, you know, no pun intended. I always say, like in the karate kid, that was my wax on and wax off face. You’re learning until you learn it. And every point of my journey, you know, I’ve learned something. And I use, you know, something every day, whether it’s from stories I’ve heard from Bill, you know, 100 times that, you know, I didn’t take or didn’t appreciate at the time, but always listened and laughed. But I understand a lot of it now. Well, and there’s, there’s also the stories from some of your colleagues now that I know Dave is still there and some of the other guys are still there and, and you probably heard many of their stories a number of times as well. So yeah, I’m a big fan of history, so I lead, I read a lot of biographies or autobiographies and learning, I learned from, I like learning from others, people that have been there and done that. Dave is a great example. He’s been in the audiology in the industry for. I could say this, he says it publicly 40 years or so. You know, there’s a lot of people, Heinz Rusch here at Starkey even outside of Starkey, within the industry, I love just picking their brain and just ask questions because if you think you’re learning, you’re through. So you’re always got to keep being curious. Well, and also, all of that gives the right perspective to, you know, because there’s a lot of decisions that the guy’s got to make sitting in your seat. Those decisions need all the information possible. Sounds like you’re getting. Gathering all of that routinely. Yes. Decision making for whether you’re a manager. Leader, or even personally you collect the facts and you make the best decision possible on the facts, and then you got to go. I mean, the worst thing you could do in my chair or in others, depending on your title, is being decisive. Well, that’s. They say that about most business things. I mean, Porter says the worst thing you can do is be stuck in the middle. And so a guy doesn’t want to, want to be, be in that middle position. So what’s. Accomplishments at Starkey are some of the most prized possessions that a guy has after 30 years of working with the company. You know, there are certain things. I could point to, but I always go back to which I firmly believe I’m one of 5000 here. And yes, I play my role. Everybody plays their role. You know, for me right now, it’s, it’s about the people in the team that we have. You know, that’s what I’m most proud of. I could point to launches and products and certain moments, but you’re only as good as the people you have around you and on the team. And so my greatest accomplishment, if anybody were to ask me, would be, you know, the people of Starkey. That’s a very good perspective for a CEO or a president to have. Is that because you depend on all those people every single day. And it’s something that is really important to the success of the company as well. What kind of visions do you see over the next 30 years? Of course, by that time, I’ll be gone and you’ll still be maybe sitting in another position, but who knows where we’ll be by that time. But. Well, the industry’s changing quickly, but the way that the patient is receiving hearing. Care and from the professional it hasn’t changed that much, I think. You know, there’s a lot of good articles and discussions within our industry now much more than ever on the possibilities. We all went through the OTC and, and what was gonna happen there and how it was going to put everybody out of business, you know, being extreme, but I heard that many times from people. And it still comes down to the human touch today, right? The hearing, healthcare professional. The technology continues to advance and that’s where, you know, from my seat, I always, you know, I’m looking up and out on what can be next. What can we do for the patient? Looking at the, I’ll say the arrival of the digital patient who wants control and convenience and might not want to wait around as much as a traditional patient does. So if you’re looking over the next. 30 years, it’s really going to be. About AI health ecosystem, where think of a AI shell that’s reporting. Back to the ear on your performance. And what you can do throughout your day to adjust to Max out for peak performance because I think it’s going to expand beyond just what a hearing aid does now and it already is for what we’re doing. And it’s, you know, you only, you always find what’s next. If you find something that is a real benefit, you keep building on it. If something isn’t, maybe it’s not ready or you fail or fail fast and move on. Well, AI is the talk of all the investment people, all the marketing people, all the, everyone. It’s kind of the OTC discussions that all of us have now. It’s all AI stuff. And my understanding is that the kinds of things that may be out there is something that will adjust to the individual a whole lot more than what they do now. And I know you guys already have some AI, but if the device would adjust to the individual, maybe even figure out their personality and this and that over time that would be of real benefit probably to the hearing impaired and their families as well. So yeah, we’ve been working on AI, our first products, seven years ago. So we’re really our 7th generation of AI. Because I seven years ago took a swing for the fences you might say, and hired a new chief technology officer that was outside of our industry, but was an expert on AI at intel doctor Achin Momik, who you bet. And we built a team around what AI was then. And I feel very good about where we’re at within the industry with our technology plus our roadmap over the next five years, AI is a component that’s going to drive what we could do with DNN and our hearing aids are already adapting to the listing situations automatically and the things that we talk about. What’s next is pretty exciting. Great. So I guess from a CEO’s perspective, what kinds of things are important for consumers? From your perspective as a, as a guy who manages all these 5000 people and puts things together and makes the big decisions. So what specific things have you learned that are really important for decisions for you to make during the, during this now period of time, after 30 years experience and all these kinds of things? Well number one, you have to care. You know, you lead, you lead with your heart and you have to care about what you’re doing. And at Starkey, you know, you’re building a team. You know, I’ve, you know, had the approach of you know, hire for attitude, develop the talent, you know, you might have somebody that has the best, you know engineering background or sales or whatever, but they’re an individual team, and they don’t have that attitude. And that’s what makes up the culture of Starkey, is that caring? Attitude then that’s going to cross over to their purpose of why they’re here. And then what we do for the, yes, our customers, but for the patient. And it’s all about, as you know, it’s intuitive. I mean, you have to have a product where they want to do less. We make complex, simple. And we have to design, manufacture and engineer products that are intuitive for the patient. Allow the professional to have the controls that they want to need for in office fittings. But it’s kind of like I use the example when I’m talking to teams or groups of our customers. It’s like Tesla. I have a Tesla and I’ve never had to open the instruction booklet. It’s very intuitive. They don’t get into the game of marketing names where it confuses everybody with what and just keep it straightforward, simple. And nowadays too, it’s the app. I mean, the app is the product. To me, it starts there. And making that the best app we can possibly have for today’s patient. And that intuitive and better hearing experience. Well as a baby boomer, I can tell you that one of the last things I use is an odor’s manual. And being a you know, you always try to figure it out first. Oh, yeah. I guess I better check to check out this particular thing or that particular thing. But an app that would be, that will tell you virtually everything intuitively is really, really where, where I would appreciate going. Im not there yet, but I would appreciate it anyway. But and then the tele hearing. Telehealth. I mean, because again, thinking ahead, you know, the convenience, the control that the patient’s going to want to have. So at the end of the day, for Starkey, the priority is what’s best for the patient, is best for our customer, is best for Starkey. We’re We’re allowed to think and act that way because we’re privately held. And, and you know, there’s a obviously in business, depending on the company set up, sometimes you have to focus on that stock price and the analysts and everything. And then what’s best for the company is best for the patient and the customer. At starkey, the patient is in charge. That’s kind of one of those old concepts. Now start with the why, then the how, then the what cynics is. So So have you had some big advice in your journey to the presidency and CEO of Starkey? Probably every day, maybe around the dinner table. Whatever else. I’ve had a lot of advice a lot of opinions. But you collect all of that depending on the situation, one that. I always, I’ll say, is a compass for me. You know, and Bill told me this a long time ago, and, and, you know, you know, I never wanted to be a boss. Right? You don’t want to be a boss. You talk about leadership. A lot of people have different definitions of what leadership is. It’s a big word, kind of like innovation, right? Many, you know, many definitions to that. And it feels, you know, you talk leadership, it’s a big, heavy word. And, oh, am I a leader of You know, you’re a leader by the principles, and you have to lead yourself in developing that discipline. And then with leadership here at Starkey, you know, for me the advice, like I said a long time ago, and I abide by it and adopt because I’m naturally a team player or always enjoy team sports, but I wouldn’t ask my team to do anything that I wouldn’t do, you know, lead from the front. So I will go get somebody a cup of coffee if needed, airport pickup if needed, to make, you know, big decisions that are needed for Starkey. So, point is, I don’t close my walls off and think that, well, you know, I’m a big deal and I’m the CEO, and I should be doing this. You know, there’s times you got to be smart with your time management, but, you know I always, you know, for me, lead from the front. And there’s probably times that my team gets frustrated with that because I, there’s certain things I enjoy much more than maybe sitting in a financial review or HR review or, you know, marketing, sales, customers, all that has always been my, you know, what I’ve always been drawn to. And then designing or not discussing and designing what’s next in product and technology. Yeah, it’s one of those things that a lot of individuals kind of sit up on top and they don’t do much below their station. And it’s in one of those old even military things. The guys get out there and they lead from the front. Those are the ones that get the people to follow them to the right station and the right place and where they’re going to go. And that’s what I require, you know, with my executive team. I’ve got a great team, a great, experienced team, and we are working executives, meaning we’ll jump in the trenches, we’ll dig the ditches, whatever it takes to, you know, satisfy the customer, the patient, and get a job done. Even go back to dumping out the hearing aids and cleaning the wax out as necessary and those kinds of things. I will still do that sometimes. Mister Austin’s up here in the evenings and he’s working on hearing aids that have been donated or are salvage aids for other types of for the starkey hearing foundation or our Sturkey cares program. I’ll sit up there and sort of hearing aids and help him out. It’s kind of therapy and it’s kind of. I know people think that’s weird, but when you’re trying to Escape a little bit. Sometimes you know, it’s okay to do what you love, but just in a different way. And you don’t have people around giving you a lot of advice and opinions. Yeah, well, at night, who wants to be there at night, except for the guys that are really working on some projects that are extremely important somehow? So what kinds of things are you dreaming about for hearing care in the future? We talked a little about that, but I. There’s probably some specific dreams that someone with your background and working all the way up through most of the places, talking to virtually dispensers, audiologists, new dispensers, new audiologists, those kinds of things. What kinds of dreams do you have for hearing care in the future, particularly at Sarkey? It’s going to be a little bit probably outside of what I would call table stakes. Sound quality battery life reliability quality the table stakes of what makes the best hearing aid. We’re on a great path. I mean, with Genesis and what we have coming out next, which I’m actually wearing right now, and trying out we’re focused on what’s necessary and what the patient and the customer or customers need. But I think if you expand your mind and use the word dream you know, I always think that, especially nowadays, you know, the world needs to listen a little bit more to each other. And, you know, that’s a lot of what we do, is helping people get reconnected. But you think about real time language translation, right? Those are barriers between people and throughout the world. And what better place and a type of company than starkey to be thinking and dreaming about? How can we not only help those with hearing loss, but help everybody get connected and listen just a little bit harder? That’s a great aspiration. Anybody who’s been to other countries, and particularly those where English isn’t spoken very well you can really use that kind of an app. Say your instrument picks it up and presents it to you, and then maybe your app presents it back to the individual with something that you said somehow that would be a dream. We started that with livio language translation. We still have it. We’re up to 76 languages now. And, you know, there. Yes, there is that delay in that transfer. And when I do a lot of interviews, you know with local media and national media, that’s one of the first questions they ask. They want to talk about the language translation and, you know, you know, is it used? Yes, but it’s not primary, of course, but you have to start somewhere. And you keep making it better because we’re only as. Good as the technology that’s available now. So we just can’t take our eye off things. And so a lot of the things that were, some of the features that we have, like the language translation we have to stay, stay on and just keep growing it. And you said, talk about dreaming. Yeah, you shouldn’t need your phone, you shouldn’t need a relay. It’s kind of like the Star Trek, right. The thing in the air and then just instantly pick up what the other person is saying if you’re talking different languages. Fabulous. Yeah those, I mean, even to me, the vestibular component that Dave and I talked about a few years ago I was totally fascinated by that kind of technology, which is outside of hearing, of course, but more on the balance side. And, and do you see some more innovations into peripheral areas like that at all? Yeah, what we’re doing, you know, we started with our falls detection. Yeah. Within our hearing aids. And, you know, you have to, we built on that. You know, there’s going to be some patients that’s needed for I could see, you know, possibly what’s next is, is falls prevention where we’re monitoring, or the hearing aid is monitoring, you know, through AI for the app and to the caregiver, the gait of how their loved one is walking, you know, are they starting to see that stooping over or monitoring their balance? That can give them early detection. So you know, there’s, that, there’s, you know, other areas that we’re exploring that, you know, is not only we talk about, you know, the quality of life for those that you know, they’re seniors and might have limitations, but other features that, you know, have give somebody an edge in their daily life. You know, they, they might be in the prime of their career and everybody wants an edge in one way or another. And, you know, there’s other things that we can expand our minds that we’re not limiting ourselves to the 65, 70 plus, which is quite active aging nowadays. But there’s more because I think we’re leading the conversations in lessening the stigma around hearing aids because you’re talking really hearing experience and hear tech. Well, having been of the generation of audiologists where nobody purchased a hearing aid unless they were, they were really deaf or 95 years old, something of that nature. The stigma to me has been reduced significantly, but it’s still there and it is still there and it’ll be there at least until we could figure out a way to make things totally invisible and do everything we need to have it do. I think it’s how we talk about it, too. The words that we use that we’re comfortable using from the industry myself included because it’s how we. We’ve grown up in the industry, but, you know, we talk about you know, quality of life and. And, you know, helping people hear better in their older years, and it’s just how we think and how we need to start talking. And it’s also getting the national media and publications, the pictures and of products that I don’t even know where they get them from. Yeah really, like, I used to dump on the table. And I’ll make repair. It doesn’t help because people need hearing help. That’s only going to make our society better. And those, you know, that those pictures, the way they discuss all these $9,000 products, these talking points are just wrong. And, you know, there’s a lot of opportunity, and once that. Once we start changing that narrative and I think we can you know, we’re going to see the acceptance more and more of a product that helps people. Because nobody talks about eyeglasses anymore. No. Right. I mean, people. Somebody’s wearing eyeglasses, usually. Like, what style and brand is it? Yeah. How cool are your glasses? That kind of thing. We can get there. It just starts with us. Yeah. Yeah. The part of that stigma thing is is, I think a little of it’s going away because of the group that’s the biggest is the baby boomer group. And they are all aware that they need this stuff. So they’re beginning to reduce the stigma, I think, to some degree. But again, it’s still there until we change some of the narratives that you’re referring. And there’s some. One of the ads on tv shows, some guy with a great big, great big receiver in his ear. And it’s. And that’s another problem, that it’s from. A company that knows better they’re using. That they should know better. They should. They do. And I saw. I know what commercial you’re talking about, and I’m like, you got to be kidding me, because that’s not helping anybody. You know, most of us. Most of us in the industry will look at that and say, you got to be kidding me. So, I know what goes into these products, and that is not even close to what is reality. Absolutely. So, do you have some advice for aspiring young either business people or audiology people that have an aspiration to kind of move into the business side and move up in the chain of individuals that are management within the companies? Well, number one, it’s not about you. I mean, when you get in a role of responsibility. Dont go too fast. Don’t try and get that office or that title too quick. Have a lot of self awareness. Because I get asked what are some of the lessons learned over my career? And I always the one thing that plays. Pops in my head is over promotion. You can over promote somebody too soon. You have the hopes for them, you all good intention, both sides. But they weren’t ready. And it’s no difference in any sport. They get up there and then their confidence is shot, or others have seen they aren’t up to the job and they don’t know all the behind the scenes discussions or other variables. But be patient. I mean, you have to lead yourself first. Be clear of your goals and what you want. But, you know, and if you jump in it just for the money, you know, then go to some individual type job or day trade and go. Sell balloons, you know, something else, you. Have to be in it for the right cause and the right purpose, and then bringing people together as a team. And you have to be, if you’re a manager, director, you have, you’re responsible for a team. And it’s not about how you look, it’s about how you’re making them better. What are you doing to influence and make them and bring out the very best of your teams? Well, again this has been a nice discussion, Brandon, and it’s been very nice to get to know you over the last two, three years as Starkey’s president and CEO. And to all of our people that are out there I want to congratulate you, Ed Starkey, for your success over the last 30 years. And also the influence that Bill has had on you, I’m sure has given you some of the orientation that we’ve discussed here in this particular episode. And so I think with that, I want to thank you for being, being with us for this episode of this week in hearing, Brandon. And again, appreciate your time, energy and effort that goes into making Starkey one of the big five major manufacturers that we all deal with. I want to thank. Thank you for having me on. And this is a fun discussion for me. I enjoy it because, yes, it’s about Starkey, but I care about our industry deeply. And thank you for everything that you do for the industry, too, Bob. Well, I think this really shows that there are people that are in some very responsible positions within the industry that have a deep heart and willingness to work very well to make the hearing impaired do much better each and every day. So with that I’ll thank Brandon for being with us today, and thank you for working with us here at this week in hearing, and be with us for another episode very soon.