Can Auracast Redefine Audio Accessibility in Public Spaces?

Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, and welcome to This Week in Hearing. This must be UK week for me as my podcast on the Bristol Temple Meads railway station Auracast installation was just aired a couple days ago. That conversation is also relevant to this one when talking about the potential to serve wider populations with Auracast in public places. In November, GN Hearing, represented by Paul Daft, who recently completed the transition from running the North Europe Hearing business to that of Europe overall, and Liam O’Dell, well-known deaf and disabled journalist, hosted a roundtable discussion and kicked off an advocacy initiative to accelerate Auracast deployments across the UK. Though their work is confined to that one country, it has global application. Therefore, I’m pleased to have both of them on the show to learn what they are doing and how their efforts will make an impact on audio and communication accessibility across a range of public locations. Let’s begin by learning a bit about them both. Paul, first off, congratulations on completing your transition to President of Europe for the Hearing Group. What else should people know about you?

Speaker 2: Oh, wow. Thanks for the intro. Yeah, it’s been a, it’s been a fun transition over the last few months. But I, I’ve been for, with GN for the last 23 years. So hearing is, is my passion, it’s also in the family. My brother’s an audiologist. My wife has hearing loss. So, so GN Hearing is, is part of who I am and, and audiology is part of who I am as well. So yeah, I’m, I’m very passionate about what we’ve got to talk talk about today but I’m very passionate about audiology in general.

Speaker 1: Oh, excellent. I, I appreciate your long career in this field and, and the impact you’ve been making in different roles along the way. So thank you for that. And Liam please tell everyone a bit more about yourself, and how did you become the popular journalist that you are?

Speaker 2: That’s very kind. I, yeah, I started in this space, I think, probably about a, a decade now, a decade or more covering popular culture, deafness, disability and trying to find ways in which that very big part of my identity could be tied to my other kind of identity or passion, which is journalism and writing. So for many years, I wrote for The Limping Chicken, which is a Deaf news website and blog that has been covering news, but also does quite a few opinion pieces. I did that until 2023 before, and, and since, going my own way and doing independent journalism. And I now review theater, write about technology and disability for my own website, which is just my name, liamodell.com. And yeah, it was a few years ago, I think even probably, actually no, maybe even less than that, probably at the start of this year that I was introduced to Auracast, which has kind of been an area that I’ve kind of latched onto and taken great interest in as kind of the next project, if you like, for me to sink my journalistic teeth into.

Speaker 1: Okay. Well, thank you for that. And I have to tell you, as I get your newsletter and all the theater reviews come across, like, “If I lived in the UK, this would be amazing,” right? But I keep reading about, especially your good experiences at shows, I’m like, “I can’t do that.” You know, I can’t watch, I can’t go see that. So thank you, thank you for that. And so, you, you know, we come to the point of the discussion which, and you’d mentioned, you know, how you became interested in Auracast from the beginning of the year, and now you and Paul have established this roundtable. And so let me ask you, Paul, I gather that GN ReSound was you know, one of the main drivers of assembling this. So what was the original impetus for creating this roundtable and the actions that followed?

Speaker 2: Yeah. We’ve certainly been a driver, but I would also give Liam huge credit for also being a, a co-conspirator or, or collaborator. It, we, we have seen some fantastic results with Auracast. In fact, I know all three of us have, have seen it in different forums, whether that’s Sydney Opera House, whether or not that’s St. Paul’s Cathedral, which we did in, in, in combination with Samsung. But we’ve also just seen it in all sorts of different people’s personal lives and their experiences that they’ve had. So we know it’s there. We know it’s out there. We know it works. We know it can have fantastic results for people. But life’s not as easy as that, unfortunately. We, we wanna see it everywhere as quickly as is possible. It is a technology that isn’t just good for people, but it also changes accessibility for people. It’s something that we’ve it, it’s more than, more than just a, a, a technology rollout. I think it’s become a passion for a lot of people. Liam’s got dragged into it. There are others out there as well that have found this, this, this space and are really passionate about making it happen quickly, making it rolled out into venues and making a difference for people. Equally, I would say, it’s not easy. It’s a bit of a jigsaw, as we knew that kind of going to our roundtable that there are lots of different people who have got lots of different pieces. We all kind of have a view of what we think the picture looks like, but we… It was only when we sat round the table together and said, “Well, we think that this is how it comes together,” that we learned about other sides of it too, learned about people’s personal experiences, learned about the practicalities that I think are really important. Because at the end of it, we wanted to find out what are the real practical obstacles that we need to solve? And together, what are the actions that we need to take to speed things up? Because at some point, it needs to move from it being a passion to being practically rolled out in more places as quickly as possible, and I think that we achieved a lot in a relatively short space of time.

Speaker 1: Oh, there’s a lot to dig into there, absolutely. now Liam, Paul credited you with being co-conspirator. How did you actually get the two of you get together on this? And what were your reasons for doing so, and like how how did you in your mind see this as being valuable going forward?

Speaker 3: Yeah. I’m grateful to Paul for that very kind credit and mention, because… And Because he was right in mentioning the Sydney Opera House. I went there earlier this year in March, which was the first implementation of Auracast in a major arts venue in the world, and I was very privileged and grateful to have been invited over to experience that. And coming away from that, I I… Well, I thought a trip to Sydney to use that technology in the future probably won’t be as sustainable as seeing its implementation in the UK. And we have seen some take-up, some interest. I know some theaters in the UK have already implemented Auracast. I know some have tried Auracast, have done kind of short experimental periods. And kind of in keeping with what Paul just discussed, it was kind of seeing, well, what’s stopping UK theaters from kind of kickstarting it and taking it onboard themselves? What are, as Paul said, those kind of practical obstacles that are stopping people or maybe putting some roadblocks in in the way for them to follow in Sydney’s footsteps? And so I kinda again, combined two of my passions, theater, as you mentioned, Andrew, and and journalism and technology to to inquire with UK theaters about whether they’d done any sort of testing on this technology or considered it at all. And as part of that, it was kind of a two-pronged approach, which was the journalistic question of can you give me a statement and tell me if if you’re looking into this technology? But then also, at the same time, would you be open to working with me and contacts in… such as GN to explore implementing it if the answer is no or we wanna find out more? And as I went through that list, we realized that there was a good number of people who said, “Yeah, we’d welcome some more information on this,” and thought, “Well, hang on, this is probably a good idea for a roundtable.” And with the discussion with with the team at GN, we basically compiled a list and got contacting and got quite a good group of people together to kind of take it off email and discuss it round a table in, in London.

Speaker 1: Okay. Well, you know, I have to tell you, I have no idea how we did not meet in Sydney other than maybe because I was in a corner interviewing people and didn’t get around as much as I wanted. Because I did a podcast on the Opera House launch back then. But let me ask you this question. Why the focus on Auracast in particular, not in promoting assistive listening in general? What made Auracast something special for you?

Speaker 3: Is that a question to me or to Paul?

Speaker 1: Sorry, that’s a question for you. I know Paul’s answer.

Speaker 3: So it’s interesting, actually. It would’ve been interesting if if you were at the roundtable, because I kind of opened it up with a short kind of speech in which I said I can’t remember the term. I think I said plurality of access. And what I mean by that is that we should not be prescriptive. … with access, not at least in terms of access to the arts. I, I mean, if you look at the UK theater landscape, I’m not sure if it’s been taken up elsewhere, but we’ve got subtitles or smart captions glasses that audience members can put on and access the theater through that way. You’ve got the kind of classic infrared hearing loops that kind of look like stethoscopes. You’ve got you’ve got different kind of technology. I wasn’t for one second, in opening that round table, saying, “Let’s just put all the efforts into AuraCast and abandon all of those,” because people will prefer, people will prefer choice, but they will also have preferences of, around which technology to use. And so it was very much going into the round table with, yes, we’re focusing today on Auracast, and the reason why we’re focusing primarily on Auracast is based on my experience. It is, it is the highest quality audio that I’ve experienced beyond the kind of classic, as I say, infrared listening systems which are patchy, which are unreliable, which can kind of create a doubling up effect where you’re hearing the audio through your, through your ears and then also kind of through any residual hearing you may have. So there was, there, there, there was this sense that Auracast is the best quality audio, but then at the same time, understanding that Auracast can certainly be the main driver, but we have to… It should be part and complementary to a wider audio accessibility landscape, shall we say because I know that there are other people at the round table who said that captions is still their kind of preferred way of accessing the arts and accessing theater, and I, I, I would, I would agree. I just think as well that AuraCast can complement that, and it is a kind of complementary thing, and I think that Auracast is, is the technology that kind of drives that space in collaboration with other technology.

Speaker 1: Okay, that’s actually a very good point with regard to captions versus other audible assistive listening systems, because I find myself doing at home, my wife and I watch TV with captions on all the time, and I’m running a TV streamer, and you know, I’ll, I’ll be able to understand most of it, but if I miss something, especially if there are foreign accents or that sort of thing, I can just glance down and look at the captions. It’s not only for people who are fully Deaf, but for people who just want to fill in some gaps, they can glance at the captions and do that too, so that’s a, that’s a great complementary way of thinking about assistive listening.

Speaker 3: And, and, and

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: absolutely right, ’cause we… In, in, our discussions, it wasn’t just necessarily the deaf people that we realized this has a use case for, you know. Auracast can be used for audio description tracks. We were thinking about how if autistic people want to leave a venue but still want to have access to what’s going on, they just find the, the kind of atmosphere of the auditorium so overwhelming they, can do that through Auracast. And I also said in, in a promotional video for GN that there’s probably use cases with Auracast that we’re yet to realize yet, and so, yeah, I, I think it’s, it isn’t… There was also something that maybe wasn’t aware, that I wasn’t aware of going into the round table but I was coming out of it, which was that I went into this thinking this is great for deaf people, but actually it’s, it’s got potential for the wider disability community as well, and I realize, I think I just cut Paul off there as well, so I will…

Speaker 2: I, you, you, you said something that I was just gonna follow on with because it… I think that’s probably fairly unusual to find a technology, and I know we talked about this around the table, that’s so inclusive, so accessible, but it has this kind of wide-ranging use cases that’s so expansive and, as you say, around things that we don’t even know. But I, I, I will confess that I may have spent 23 years in audiology but clearly we are a technology company and we don’t talk about accessibility as much, or enough I would probably say. something that is always good to talk about, accessibility within businesses as well. I learned a huge amount from different stakeholders sitting around that table. It was it was still educational for me. It was also really personally moving to hear the experiences of people who have really used this in, in public environments and how much it makes a difference. The one thing I would just add on to the conversation about the plurality of different accessible options is, it was really good to be able to talk to venues about how easy this is to install, that it doesn’t have to remove other options. It’s, you, you can add this in, it’s easy, it’s not prohibitively expensive, it can sit alongside other options. And I think in terms of myth-busting with some of the venues, that was fantastic because I think that perhaps they kind of come to look at the technology and say, “Well, it sounds really good, but is this gonna be difficult? Is this gonna be expensive? Maybe we don’t have the budget.” And it was it was interesting to see how all of the venues really opened up when they went, “Oh, well, that sounds like this is, this is gonna be relatively simple to do and, and I think we probably could afford to do that.”

Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, that, I, I agree with everything you said and, and, and one thing that kind of triggered a thought in my mind is that, when I talk with people here, in the States anyway, I find that…I have a 100% track record of people not having come away from their time with their audiologist understanding how assistive listening works, and I have to admit, I’m a little bit frustrated by that. And at audiological conferences, I’ve talked with audiologists who said, “Well, I did show people how to use their T-coil. I did talk about TV connectors,” and yet none of their patients come away knowing what those things were or how to use them. And so, I think that part of the program has to be improved to make sure that enough time is spent so people understand it, and I think Auracast is helping to drive that, because there is, this kind of pushes Auracast as a differentiator in hearing devices, now there’s more conversation around Auracast. And I’ve seen it, for example, when I asked the person responsible for the installation in Sydney, “Why did you consider Auracast?” And she said, her patrons were asking for it. They didn’t quite know what it was, but they were, you know, there’s this new system that’s supposed to be good, do my hearing aids work with it, this sort of thing. And I just did interviews with people at the Marriott Lincolnshire, the Lincolnshire, Illinois in the UK in the US whose installation was launched about a month ago, and we had a launch party with folks here at, at GN here in the States, and I asked them the same question, and I got the same answer, patrons were asking for it. So I’m hoping that it brings awareness in the audiological community to communicate the benefits of assistive listening to their patients, Auracast especially because of its advantages, but any system, to be able to know how to interact with any system and use it to your advantage, I think is super important. I am going to now ask, and this is a question for both of you, you both mentioned identifying barriers what are those barriers? Liam, let’s start with you. What are the barriers that were identified?

Speaker 3: Sure. I certainly found when contacting theaters in the first instance that there was, there was this kind of lack of awareness around what it was, and thankfully, obviously, there were a good number of people that, that when faced with that question thought, “I will go to the roundtable and, and find out there,” but there were some, I think, that saw it as, I don’t know, maybe saw it as quite a big leap to, to kind of take that step towards finding out more maybe took more of a kind of step, step back to assess things from a, from an outside perspective. So, I I, I think, I think there was this kind of apprehension and we and we kind of talked about it or, or rather, Paul talked about it just there, and it was kind of this whole myth-busting thing. I think there was, I think there was some degree of, and I would say it was healthy apprehension in the roundtable at first, and I think that is what we will see and have seen from arts venues in the UK more broadly. I think, and it kind of ties into quite nicely what you said about the Sydney Opera House installation where you said kind of patrons are, are asking for it, and the, and the, and the example you gave in Lincolnshire, or Lincolnshire if we’re talking about the UK equivalent. And so, yeah, it, I think there is a degree that that will be the case here in the UK. I mean, I maybe was just one of the first to be like to, to UK theaters, “Hey, this is coming. Are we gonna do something about it?” Who knows? There might be more people that aren’t me asking those questions to theaters. I, I couldn’t possibly know. And so, I think the, the, the, the barrier I certainly identified is this kind of confusion, and, and uncertainty around what Auracast actually is, and I said in, in kind of conversation with others around the roundtables that that is something we should seize upon, and seize upon it with curiosity rather than apprehension, because I think if we, if we, if we don’t treat that apprehension, then, then the, the mindsets and the trepidation, shall we say, becomes more embedded and harder to tackle and challenge, as opposed to if we move these venues and move these stakeholders towards a position of curiosity and intrigue, which invites and encourages those conversations, which then encourages, … the kind of myth-busting that Paul was talking about, and therefore then puts them into a much better and likely position to adopt the technology. I think… And I, said as well that Auracast is inevitable. I mean, it is coming, it is happening, and so it, it would… It is logical and sensible for businesses and venues to move towards that approach of curiosity and intrigue, as opposed to aversion, to kind of get ahead of the curve, if you like.

Speaker 1: Okay. And, and ahead of the curve is almost passing, because there are now installations are occurring at a rapid pace.

Speaker 3: Of course.

Speaker 1: And there are now two and a half of the major hearing aid companies with Auracast capability. And so this, the train is, has really left the station now. And Paul, you work for the company who has the broadest experience of Auracast. I mean, I think back to the Lincoln Center demo that was done in the US at the time when there was only the beta version of the app, going through actual installations and, of course, a lot of conversations with end users and audiologists and so on. From your point of view, what barriers do you see that need to be resolved before this truly becomes mass market?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I’m a kind of fairly practical guy, so I, so I think you can kind of break it down into three chunks, if you like. And as, as you say, the, the first one of those is, is, is really easy, because you need to… You need the hearing aids with Auracast to start with, and as you say, there’s kind of two and a half, two and a half out there that already have it. That helps a lot. Availability of hearing aids, mass market with Auracast in it helps a lot. And every time there is another manufacturer that joins the party, we just celebrate it. It’s, it’s, it’s a great thing for GN Hearing when more manufacturers are also implementing Auracast in their hearing aids, because it means that it’s just gonna drive that adoption faster for more people. Clearly, on the other end of the scale, then you need the venues as you say. I think that is already picking up at speed. That was kind of a focus for a lot of our roundtable conversation, going, “Well, how do we make it faster?” And then there is that bit in the middle which is around information. And information, I mean, it can mean a lot of things. It can be information for venues. It can be information for hearing aid wearers. It can be information for audiologists. There were some really practical things that I loved that came out of the conversation. As, as you probably already know, you know, you can access Auracast through a QR code. While someone quite rightly said, “Well, there’s no reason, as a theater, you couldn’t have the QR code on your ticket or on your app for the venue, so that before you even arrive, you know how you’re gonna access your stream.” You know, that, that thoughtful sharing of information of how do you make the experience easier all through the journey, I thought that was fantastic, because, you know, as a hearing aid manufacturer, I would have never have thought of that. That’s, that’s something that only when you really start to understand the real-life applications of how it can work and what that experience should look like, that, that s, that’s when you start to say, “Well, yeah, if more people knew how to do that, it would accelerate the adoption.” So there are, there are… There isn’t kind of one answer. There’s kind of multiple areas that we all need to work on which is why it was so good to have that kind of cross-functional group of people there, of bringing those different experiences.

Speaker 1: Well, it’s interesting you mention QR codes, because that was part of the conversation with Bristol Temple Meads, and that is QR codes make a lot of sense there, because everybody in the station is used to tapping in to ride a train or the metro and… Or the underground, sorry. And, you know, that makes sense. So you already have your phone out, ready to do QR codes. You know, you can have the QR code anywhere about the station, or NFC actually was the conversation, right? You’re tapping in and out with NFC to ride the underground. So you could have NFC, you know, in lots of spots in the station. You could just tap into your station. But I think about both the Eurotrak survey and the MarketTrak survey for 2025 the MarketTrak being in the US and EuroTrak covering different countries. They all said the same thing, and that was roughly, on average, about half of hearing aid users were using the apps. So to me, it seems one barrier is just that there are people who want to have access to assistive listening in a theater, but don’t use the app or have a smartphone. And I… Granted, that’s generally on the older end of the age spectrum, but these are real hearing aid users who need assistive listening. Did that come out as a barrier in the roundtable discussion also?

Speaker 2: I don’t think it came out as a barrier in the discussion. But I think there was a couple of specific things that were interesting. Well, I mean, I’ve seen recently the recent changes that Samsung are making from a user experience perspective with their phones of saying doesn’t always just have to be app-driven. You know, they can also integrate that into more of the operating systems of the phone so even make that experience easier. One of the things that Well And I guess this goes back to the plurality of options again, going, “Doesn’t really matter how you get there, as long as you, you find an easy way for you.” There was some fantastic experience with one of the guys who was very involved in the original writing of the specification for Auracast, a very interesting guy, who also sat there saying, “The, the way that the specification has been written is we’re probably only using a small percentage of the options that are available at the moment.” There are gonna be so many options coming forward to make it easier to engage in those Auracast streams.Um, so I was, I’m really excited and kind of buzzing by the fact that, yes, it’s getting out there, yes, people are wearing it, but this can go so much further and and so much easier for wearers. I think it’s, I think it’s really exciting what those options are.

Speaker 1: Well, that comment sounds like a very Nick Hunt thing. It must have been him.

Speaker 2: It was Nick.

Speaker 1: Now, now Liam, I, I noticed, and, and you mentioned him in the beginning, and that is one of the participants in the round table was fellow collaborator Deaf journalist Charlie Swinburne, aka, The Limping Chicken, and I love the story how he came to name his channel, his publication The Limping Chicken. But so now you have two Deaf people involved, and so that made me curious how you see Auracast having a positive impact on people who are, are Deaf versus merely hearing impaired. I shouldn’t say merely, but deaf people versus people who have some hearing.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think there is a… I just wanna make sure I’ve understood that question correctly. So it’s, it’s kind of how Auracast appeals to a, a full wide spectrum of hearing loss. Is that kind of what you’re asking?

Speaker 1: Yes, including, including a… and, and correct me if I’m wrong, but Charlie in particular, I, I… my impression is he’s fully Deaf.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: And yet he was involved in this round table, and so how does Auracast apply to a person like Charlie?

Speaker 3: obviously, I don’t

Speaker 1: would be involved in it.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I should ask him this question, but he’s not on.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, of course. I, I, I can’t speak for, for, for Charlie, but I think there is, there is another point, I think, to be made around that kind of plurality of access that I talked about before in that it doesn’t necessarily have to just be Auracast or nothing, and I think for me, I, I think I could certainly get a lot from being in a theater, tuning into an Auracast stream, and that being the kind of sole point of access if the… ’cause the quality is that good, I can and have been able to access things with that access provision in mind. But in reading kind of Charlie’s write-up of his experience of that round table, he was talking about how captions were and still are his kind of main points of access, if you like, but sees Auracast as being complementary to that. And so I think, I think there will be a really interesting situation where Auracasts can collaborate and work with preexisting technology and provisions to enhance things, in addition to it being an enhancing technology in and of itself, in its own right. So I think, I think, for example, like I said about the captions glasses, there’s nothing stopping people from using those in conjunction with the Auracast stream into their hearing aids to, to allow for that kind of kind of, like I, like I said, plurality of access. There’s no other better way of describing it, whereby if, if the… whereby you’re not kind of putting your eggs in one accessibility basket, to completely ruin a a, a, a, a turn of phrase. And so I, I think that’s, that’s the exciting exciting kind of implementation that I think we’ll see is around real experimentation and yeah, real, real experimentation and creativity, which kind of has been tapped upon touched upon by what Paul said about the kind of QR codes, you know. the theaters were at that round table incredibly creative around potential implementation, around potential ideas to, to introduce this into their spaces. And so I, I wouldn’t be surprised if that then also extends to creativity around how different access provisions can work together with Auracast to fully enhance an experience for a range of, of deaf and disabled people.

Speaker 1: … okay. And, and there was an interesting chain of events surrounding the Bristol Temple Meads podcast, and of course, in the theater, there are these kind of professional caption glasses that some theaters are using. But I had actually, before the podcast, I had … and before it was even set up, I had posted on LinkedIn the idea of about the consumer-grade smart glasses being able to receive Auracast and, and run captions across a screen at the train station. In other words, instead of looking down at your phone all the time, that you could just be going about the station normally and having the captions going across, the idea being that the clean audio from Auracast would give you clean captions. It would be impossible to, to take a smart glasses and, and get captions off that reverberant announcement, right? And, and so I, I posted that, and I said, who’s gonna be the first one to make this work?” And the caption glasses company, XRAI, X-R-A-I, said, “Stay tuned. There’s an announcement coming.” And literally, that podcast was ready to be aired when they made their announcement that they were working together with Ampetronic in the same innovation program with the railway authority to do exactly that. So now you actually have the possibility of consumer-grade smart glasses being able to live caption anywhere with clean Auracast as the basis of the audio for the captioning. And in fact, they’ll do language translation too. So the XRAI system will do language translation as well as original English captioning. And I thought, what a fascinating way to be able to go to any Auracast place and get captions without being distracted. I never liked the caption board above the theater. Even if I’m only glancing at it occasionally, if somebody’s using those captions often, they’re not attending to the stage. They’re attending to the screen up on top. Or if they have the caption unit that they’re looking down at they’re not attending to the visuals of the stage. They’re reading the audio, and the glasses idea struck me as being really, really good.

Speaker 3: And I, I remember when I first went to the National Theater for their launch of the smart captions glasses, and there was, at that very early stage, questions around whether the technology could be upgraded to include audio description. And I am not, for one second, going to profess to be a tech expert, so I wouldn’t I wouldn’t necessarily know how feasible this is, but it certainly sounds like, from that example, it is a potential is around using Auracast as audio, as an audio description channel in conjunction with the smart captions glasses. I don’t see why that wouldn’t be an option. I think that certainly would help those who are deaf-blind, for example. So I, yeah, I think there is, there is a way for the, the, Auracast technology to assist with the, with the glasses, which especially when they use AI or when they use kind of auto-captioning technology with some degree of inaccuracy, I think Auracast certainly helps increase that kind of accuracy rate for sure.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And perhaps actually just adding onto that, the and it had never really struck me but it, you could kind of almost think about Auracast as a platform, if you like, because the fact that you kind of, you can, you can broadcast in multiple streams at the same time. Then that was a conversation that I hadn’t expected to have at the at the round table discussion, was, well, this is almost the perfect technology to say, “Yes, you can have a audio description channel. You, yes, you can also have multiple different languages if you needed to.” But you can cater for so many audiences with just one technology, whereas you, you wouldn’t necessarily use TCoils in the same way. It’s just more, it’s just more flexible about how you can present different audio streams to people, which in some ways just makes it just a lot easier that you can use that technology to serve different people different content.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. The multi-channel nature of Auracast lends a lot of interesting applications, and I thought the biggest alternate application would be, as you mentioned, audio description. If you’re doing audio description, now you can broadcast it through Auracast and a low-vision person with an ordinary set of consumer earbuds can pop in and discreetly use the descriptive audio without having to wear a thing around their neck, or, you know, have headphones on or that sort of thing. Because in talking, in talking to people here and I saw this see this everywhere, including at our church, where, you know, there, there are people who are hesitant to wear the thing. Much go to a theater and just be able to pop in a set of earbuds or use their hearing devices directly versus wearing the headset is attractive. They don’t want to go and advertise their need to some random person when they go collect it. I see Liam, you know, you’re, from your experience, you’re, you’re, you’re nodding vigorously. So yes, and so this for all kinds of people who want that. I actually before the Marriott launch, they had it running for a few weeks before we did the launch event, which was timed with the premiere of their next show. I hit up a friend in their 30s with a set of JBL earbuds and said, “Try it out. Let me know what you think.” And they said, amongst other things…Even as a fully normal hearing person, I can appreciate this. Because sometimes shows just… you just get into sensory overload, and it’s nice just to be able to take it down a notch. And so, to be able to do that and to serve all those people discretely was one of my attractions to Auracast from, from very early on as well. Now, Paul, I’ll ask you this question first and that is, the outcome of this round table was a vision statement and some goals. And what were those? And how are they actually being carried out?

Speaker 2: I’m gonna simple down the simplify the vision down to two really important things. So the first thing was that we decided that the accessible audio should just be seen as a right and not a privilege. And it sounds so fundamental, but I think having that common agreement with everyone felt like a really important starting point. Because it’s not always the case at the moment. It’s sometimes an afterthought really, rather than it being just something that’s demanded. I know there was one very passionate advocate in the group who, who wears hearing aids and uses Auracast and really has completely changed their view of saying, “No, I, I actually just think that Auracast should be a right, not just accessible audio,” because of their personal experiences with it. The other thing is, is it kinda goes back to the start of saying, “Well, what’s the timeline for this? When do we get venues with Auracast?” And you’ve gotta be bold sometimes in saying that we believe that all public venues should have Auracast by 2030. That is I’m looking at my calendar here. In, in not too long, it’s 2026, which means that that’s a pretty short space of time. But there’s no real reasons why that couldn’t be possible. This is not necessarily complicated technology. This is not massively expensive technology. So, so that’s where we set the vision, saying, “Put a date on it, 2030, and get it out there in all public spaces.”

Speaker 1: Okay. And then, I’ll, I’ll ask, and either one of you can answer, and that, what is the actual action plan? How do you achieve that goal? What came out of the round table? What are the actions, and how are those actions being tracked and followed up on?

Speaker 2: Well, well, well, maybe if I, if I start then Liam, as my wingman can also jump in. It’s a little bit complicated because there isn’t one plan, right? There are multiple stakeholders involved in this, and that, there, that means that there has to be multiple streams of how we really go about that. We’ve committed that this is a, a framework that’s gonna have to evolve over time that we need to go away and find specific solutions for specific areas. But it’s something that if we continue to come together, that we will find those solutions of, of how we implement that. It, it… Sometimes it starts from the very top. If you look at it from a government perspective, I love the fact that the Scottish Parliament has now rolled out Auracast. It seems to make a difference when political institutions are also implementing technology. Somehow that’s a fairly decent benchmark for everybody else to follow. But it, it’s, overall it’s gonna be our plan that we’re gonna have to continue to work with, with all of the individual stakeholders and continue to drive each other to, to make happen. But unless… I guess you could say that from the early signs and the venues that were also present around the table at the time, I was really positively surprised of, of how immediately engaged they were. I think that, that there were multiple theaters represented around in that, in that conversation, that may have started a conversation, at least on the, “I’m interested, tell me more,” and left the room saying, “When do we install it?” so I don’t… It’s a bold vision, but I don’t think it’s, it’s, it’s an impossible vision at all. It’s already happening now. And as soon as you engage people, they pretty much switch immediately onto it.

Speaker 3: I, I, and I, I would add to that certainly that, that is… I think that was for me one of the great … advancements from the round table was having almost, kind of, like, venue advocates within their respective theaters to begin to, kind of, escalate the, the impact of AuraCast up through their respective channels to the wider structure, shall we say, in those particular theaters. Because obviously, you know, I’m appreciative of the fact that there will have to be other people in, in these venues, you know, certainly, kind of, directors or people higher up who will have to be convinced of its potential beyond the, kind of, access managers or the people that were in that round table. And so having those, kind of if you like, kind of, industry advocates as well was, kind of, really exciting to then, kind of, see that as the next step forward, where they would then go away and to begin to kind of build up the, kind of, almost if you like, a kind of Auracast ripple effect for, for want of a, for want of a better way of describing it, where they will begin to, kind of, pass on the message within their respective organizations. But I think the other thing that I would have that I would add onto as well is, is I reported back in May that a report by Bluetooth said that AuraCast is set to be available in over a million venues by 2029. So, it, is ambitious. It is quite a, a bold target to get it done by the end of the decade, but it does go back to what I say around Auracast being inevitable and certainly, in the UK at least venues needing to be more alert to this because clearly we’re seeing in, in other countries and other spaces that Auracast is, is moving, as you say, Andrew at pace. And so it was, it was, it was, kind of, almost an attempt to kind of turbocharge those conversations, and I think I’m certainly reassured that that has been successful.

Speaker 1: Okay. And, and it’s interesting you mentioned the rest-of-the-world implications and the pace of things the rest of the world, and it makes me wanna ask, Paul, is there any intention to try and replicate this in other regions where you enlist other stakeholders like you did with Liam, or like the, the way you two came together, to do the same throughout Europe or elsewhere in the world?

Speaker 2: I, I would love to. I need to find the, the, the Liam version in all of the different countries in Europe. It’s… I would say the, the, the really nice thing about the conversation that we had in the UK was that it was… It’s kind of been like an organic process. It wasn’t something that was forced. It just happened when we collectively reached that point that there was enough advocates in the country that, that people just wanted to really drive this further and faster. I think it’ll be, it’ll be a different jigsaw in every country. There are different groups. You know, there are, there… In some countries, there are really strong patient advocate groups. In some, there are not so much. So it is a really different picture in every country. It’s clearly something that brings me great joy when you kind of see this really drive forward. So the, the faster we can do this everywhere, absolutely. It just has… You have to find those people first. You have to find the Liam of France, the Liam of Germany and then bring them together. But yeah, it’s fantastic when we can make it happen.

Speaker 1: And clearly, you’re making it happen in the UK. Now, let’s say there is somebody in a different country who’s thinking about this and would love to see something like that happen in their country, or even be a part of making it happen. How can they actually read about and learn more about what you’ve accomplished, what the vision statement was, what the goals are? Where can they get further information?

Speaker 2: Well, we’re, we’re starting to publicize it now. There was a huge amount of material that we’ve managed to get from the round table, which we’ll be sharing through, through GN channels as per normal anyway. So, I mean, in, in other countries as well, then I would say that, you know, feel free to reach out to us also, because I think right at the start of this, we described how did this happen. One of the things that we’re able to bring is the fact that we are reasonably well connected. We know different people as well. So it’s, it’s one of those things that people can proactively reach out to us too in other countries, ’cause we would love to be the, the, the people that can just facilitate these conversations to happen.

Speaker 3: I mean, that’s how, that’s how this round table came about. I, I saw that I had a list of theaters that were interested. I saw that I had my certain, kind of, experience and knowledge of Auracast, but I knew that there would be expertise from GN that could be that could contribute to that conversation. And thankfully, through that round table, they were able to bring in charities, stakeholders, healthcare providers, practitioners, the whole range of people that, yes, I have contacts like them myself, but it’s, it is quite nice that GN has those contacts and is, can be seen as a kind of port of call, if you like, for widening conversations. So we talked about the kind of Liams of France, Germany and, and the rest of Europe, which is a, an entertaining but perhaps slightly worrying idea, because I, I think one, one Liam is, is enough but the the… I, I don’t think it’s impossible and I don’t think it’s k-… entirely out the out the ordinary for people in those other countries to do what I did, and reach out to GN and say, “Hey, look. This … I want to kind of be part of the conversation and be part of driving that forwards.” Because I think the, the … it is about making those connections and if, if GN … I, I don’t wanna put words in GN’s mouth, but if, if GN is the kind of facilitator for that and kind of helps to kind of connect the dots, if you like, then I, I certainly see that as being only a good thing, in terms of the further roll-out of Auracast.

Speaker 1: Okay. Well, listen, I, I personally really applaud what you’re doing, because it’s, it’s obvious to everyone that I’ve been you know, really an, an advocate for Auracast myself, based on my personal experience. I mean, I had been asked to talk about it even three years ago when it was first announced that the standard was finalized, but then the Lincoln Center demo, which was the first time I had experienced Auracast at a live performance … That’s, what? A year and a half ago now. And was just absolutely blown away by the audio quality that went with it and how it really enhanced my experience, versus just listening to performance straight with hearing aids. And so, I, I really appreciate what you are doing and I look forward to seeing that expand in different countries as the whole thing, you know, accelerates forward. I’ll … Before we close, just … any final thoughts, Paul?

Speaker 2: Now, I … I’m … This is more than just the technology. For those people that have experienced it, I, I … The fact that people who have normal day jobs are giving up their time to be passionately driving a technology forward … I mean, if that isn’t a huge sign that says this is transformational, then I don’t know what is. So, I, I thank everyone that has been contributing to this journey, both of you two also specifically Liam for his help with this roundtable, because I think this is gonna make such a difference. I’m, I’m, I’m so excited for what’s gonna happen with it.

Speaker 1: Oh, I really do agree. And, and especially as we’ve talked about. I mean, for me, it was the sound quality but then when I talk with other people who will be able to use it in different ways, you know, based on neurodiversity or low vision or not speaking a language natively, what have you, just takes … I’m gonna say communication accessibility, because it’s not necessarily just audio for a fully deaf person, for example, but it just takes communication accessibility in public places to a whole new level, and that’s what’s really exciting, I think, ultimately. And Liam, any final thoughts from you?

Speaker 3: I, I certainly will say that if anyone is interested in seeing kind of news on the further take-up of Auracast in the UK, I’ll certainly be championing that and following it as closely as I can. And I’ve … I think Paul’s summed it up perfectly, which is just the, the sheer excitement that can come from this, the, the the passion that can come from from having experienced it. And you’ll know this, Andrew, based on what you just said, you know, kind of the sound quality and everything else, is that it will … Once, once you’ve experienced it, I think, you’ll be part of the, of the hype, shall we say, I think. And I think that’s the other thing, is that we talked about its, its reach far beyond just a, a kind of thing for deaf people or hard of hearing people, and I think it, it speaks to that phrase that I like to use, which is accessibility benefits everyone. I don’t think for one second we should be or or we must be, because we shouldn’t or we mustn’t see Auracast as only appealing to one demographic. And I think the, the, the more that we push this out as something that will be revolutionary in some way to everybody, I think the, the, the more that this excitement will grow and the more progress we’ll see, and I can’t wait to see that happen.

Speaker 1: What a great way to finish the episode. I appreciate you both joining me today, and I want to thank everyone for watching or listening to this edition of This Week in Hearing. I wish you all a happy and healthy 2026.