Oticon Reveal Hearing Aids: Inside the New Dual AI Technology

Hello everyone, and welcome to This Week in Hearing, live from OticonNext in San Diego, site of the Oticon Reveal U.S. launch. The event was held in a lovely setting on the Pacific with plenty of time to meet people and share experiences, as well as informative plenary sessions and breakouts to learn how the Reveal improves the listening experience for people with hearing loss like me. It’s now a matter of course for me to check on the Auracast stream at events like this. The plenary session today did not disappoint. This is exactly the kind of configurable space where Auracast shows its value. Opened up to form a large ballroom, it was reverberant enough to raise listening effort, Without help. Speaking of, I was completely unable to resist the magnetic pull of the Auracast breakout.

With about a half a dozen rooms running concurrently at 2 different times, every one of the 700 or so HCPs at the event had the opportunity to learn how the app works to tune channels, adjust the listening experience, and explain Auracast to their patients. The universe of people looking for Auracast in the real world is set to grow rapidly. But enough of that. Let’s have a conversation with Michael Lamberson, President of Oticon USA, and Thomas Behrens, Vice President of Hearing Aid Audiology, as they reveal everything about how they accomplished a new level in hearing performance. Mike and Thomas, thanks a lot for joining me. I know it’s a very busy day. Congratulations on the launch. Thank you. Thank you very much. So correct me if I’m wrong, but when I think about the Intent, you had a DNN running, but it was really informing the scene classifier. You had inertial sensors and you’re listening to the sound scene and you’re using that to control the settings of the hearing aid.

This seems like a totally different beast altogether. So like kind of thinking at a high level, how do you think of the Reveal and what are you intending with the Reveal that’s different than the Intent? That’s a great question. So me being new to the industry, I wanted to understand the same question. And so when I learned about the advances that the R&D team had been making in algorithms, And then separating speech and contextual sounds, which is part of why we have the Dual AI, and building those algorithms and kind of putting them together for the brain. That was kind of the big insight for me, that this is something that has never been done before. So I don’t view it, to me at least, as like a better version of Intent. It’s like the best of all the technologies and learnings that we’ve had over the years. Okay. And so really what you’re trying to do here then is to have both speech and environmental sounds in the proper balance, correct?

So how do you actually put that into practice in terms of I’m wearing the Reveal? Like, what will I experience? What will I hear through the Reveal? So what you’ll experience is that because we have this new Speech AI, which is giving us a whole new level of situational awareness first and foremost, but at the same time also identifying precisely for every single frequency where the speech is at and when it is present, then the hearing aids can react to that and bring you both crystal clear speech as well as that full access To the contextual sounds. Okay. And physically, how are you implementing that with the dual DNN? Physically, what’s the structure of the hearing aid? Yeah, so physically we have one main hearing aid signal processing chip where we have those 2 deep neural networks trained, one to track the speech in all that detail and clean it up.

And then secondly, providing that information from the speech AI to the context AI, which will then set the level of the contextual sounds and further reduce the noise. And this is all running within a single chip. What’s the advantage of doing it that way? Well, the advantage is that first and foremost, they know what each other is doing. So they inform each other and are working together all the time, which means they can really complement each other. One will handle one type of sound, So the sounds that are easy to locate and the other will handle the more diffuse remaining background noise. And in that way, they really complement each other. Okay. Now, it’s interesting because there’s been a flurry of new news these days about work being done in the University of Washington to create these sound bubbles. I actually interviewed one of the people a couple of years ago, and it sounded fascinating. As a person with hearing loss, just give me my 2-meter bubble and leave everything out.

But you’re saying That’s not the ideal case. Well, you can do sort of maybe a little bit of a bubble, right? But it shouldn’t be completely isolated. You can create a distance between the people that are close to you and the rest of the restaurant or family dinner or whatever. But don’t take it all away. Okay. And why is that important? Well, that’s because independent research, as well as actually some of our own work, has shown that if you really take it all away, you deprive the brain of something super important, which it really needs. Because the way we make sense of sound, the brain is built from these libraries of sounds that are mixtures of speech and surrounding sounds. So that’s what the brain is used to recognizing. So we want the brain to continue to have access to that typical type of sound, which makes it better and faster at recognizing sound.

Okay, so you’re allowing me to hear the contextual sounds and speech, and yet if I’m in a noisy situation, I want the contextual sounds to be low enough so that I can clearly understand the speech. How do you pick that? How much contextual sound should I be hearing in any given situation? Like, what drives the level of each that you’re choosing? Yeah, so either diagnostics. So we have this audible contrast test that some clinicians have started to do, but otherwise they can interview the patient on their need for separation of speech and contextual sounds and set that individually in the fitting software. There are also defaults that we’ve tested to work extremely well so that people really prefer this new sound. over the sound we previously provided. So you’ve got some studies that show different mix of environmental and speech sounds and where the sweet spot is. How does that work for a person with normal hearing versus a person with hearing loss?

Well, both of them can access these mixtures, but with normal hearing, you have a wide range of settings that will give you access to both the speech and the context. For people with hearing loss, that range of settings is a little smaller, but we’ve developed defaults and alternatives to help clinicians reach that balance point between speech and context. Okay. So you’ve got a study that shows where the sweet spot is, and it might be different for different people, which is why you give a hearing care professional some control over where that is set. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Now, so the whole thing kind of implies you’re working in 360. Is directionality any part of this or? Are you manipulating speech sounds and environmental sounds 360 degrees? We are providing 360-degree access to sounds, but we are manipulating some directions. Like, something’s got to give to create the contrast. So we are taking down the level of the noisy locations in the surroundings so that everything else can be available. Okay.

And it’s interesting to think about this in different contexts because I’ve put myself in different situations and listened carefully what the results are. And so I’ll give you 2 scenarios. One is sitting here with my wife in the middle of a restaurant, and there’s a couple of very loud people over here I am not interested in. And without good directionality, they’re kind of flooding the zone, if you will, right? I mean, I’m hearing more of them than my wife. But in the opposite case, I put myself with my back against the wall and all the beamformers in the world didn’t help because the noise was directly behind her. And so a primarily noise reduction strategy worked better for me there. So how is this one working in both of those contexts? Well, so what the hearing aid is doing, it’s sort of layering the sounds so that the brain can pick and choose which ones to select from.

But you’re right, if you have very loud people in your surroundings, then they are loud depending on the settings of the hearing aid. But typically there is quite a distance to other people, which means that— I’m thinking of sitting at an outdoor café in Paris where the next table is like right there, right? Well, there are challenges of the real world that people with hearing impairment and hearing aid users will also— I know them well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So of course we can’t solve anything in one go, but I think we’ve made a very important step forward. And then yes, there are the other ones where maybe they will take special situations and maybe the bubble you talked about, it should be used in a few cases. I know every manufacturer in the industry is working with a bubble in some way. So we might see that in a hearing aid in the future. Well, and, and, and that’s an interesting point because you’re also striving for the most automatic operation possible.

And I’m assuming this is all running fully automatic. I don’t need to manually intervene to get any of this to work, correct? Correct. So as I go from situations of different contexts, different noise levels, different number of speakers, you’re constantly adjusting. There’s no manual mode changing here. Exactly. And so then it gets— yeah, the consequential challenge is how do I actually cover all these edge cases? Yes. And we have special purpose programs that are very easy for clinicians to pick and choose depending on the specific listening needs of individuals. But we want that automatic program to cover, I don’t know, 95, 99% of the time. Okay. And so let’s talk about music because This is consistently one of the big challenges. That is, if I’m, say, say I’m at a jazz club with a couple of friends, we’re primarily listening to the music. I want that music to be as high quality as possible.

Another time we might go into a similar place, but the focus is on the conversation and that music is now background that I don’t want to impede the conversation. How do you actually derive a person’s intent in these 2 cases? Yeah, that’s a good question, right? I mean, it’s something musicians have often told us that they would like an automatic program that helps them both listen to music, for instance, in rehearsals, but also have the conversation with the band or the orchestra about how they play. So balancing all of that would then either be the general program of the hearing aid where we have seen a lot of progress and we’ve seen some of our early users really like the sound of the new hearing aids, or you can go to the music program, which we also offer. That has optimized more linear, more balanced settings for music appreciation and music sort of— Yeah, for pure listening.

And in fact, I’m one of the people who mixes at our church and I will always go to music mode because I don’t want nonlinear processing playing around with it. Right, exactly. But if I’m, for example, listening in a jazz club and then I’m periodically talking with my mates, how will the Reveal react and adjust as we do that? If I start talking, is it going to have a different focus than if I’m listening to the music for a while? Yes, depending on which program you’re in, right? If, say, in automatic, I just walk in in automatic. In automatic, it’ll adapt all the time depending on whether there’s speech or not and give you whatever clarity you need. So when there’s no speech, it’ll have a general sort of amplification. And then when there is speech, it’ll go in and enhance it. Okay. I kind of view it like the brain naturally tries to understand what’s going on around it.

And I guess the simple way I look at it is when it’s getting amplified, whether it means speech or close background noise or far away background noise, you may switch from, I really want to listen to the music, but then all of a sudden I don’t like the next song and I want to talk to my to my friends, like your brain, if you’re not hearing impaired, is, is making that decision too. And so we’re trying to support what the brain was originally designed to do. If, and if I can just put it as simply as possible. So the hearing aid is not going to overthink or force fit. Tell me if I’m wrong. Right. Force feed the brain what to do, but it’s kind of giving the input for the brain to start making sense of it. That’s just a simple way I kind of view it. But to a certain extent, but you’re also manipulating it, right?

Because, you know, the problem with us hearing-impaired people is that the noise and the voices are all blending together. And so you’re, you’re still going to automatically accentuate the voices even though I can still hear the entire context. Is that correct? Am I interpreting it correctly? That’s correct. But what we are seeing actually and have seen for a bit more than a decade is When we, when we can give the brain all the details of sound, then it’ll start sorting out sound more naturally. Okay. So you’re going to recover some of my ability to sort the sounds I want from the sounds I don’t want naturally through the way this— That would be a good study. That would be a good study to take somebody and then track them over like 12 months to actually see where that goes. Because I think Theoretically, what you’re saying should be true because it’s almost like that part of your brain is like not used to hearing surrounding sounds because you don’t want to.

So it’s so hyperfocused on speech, then your brain is just trying to learn how to understand things only by talking to other people without any— it’s like having your eyes closed in the woods and you don’t really know what’s going on around you. It’s kind of how I view it. So there’s probably, I’m guessing, an adaptation, readaptation period for your brain. To when it, when it kind of has these sounds amplified in the right way, just then start relearning. Yeah. How to rely on your brain plasticity to start relearning new ways of listening. Yes. Yeah. And, and so you’ve also, what you mentioned, that scenario, if I take these out and I go into a loud restaurant, you know, I can work at it and even hear people and my brain is melting. Like, I’ll be super fatigued by the end of the night. Yes. So now you have some ways, and I’m assuming you’ve got ways of measuring listening effort and fatigue.

And are you using that to, you know, check on and inform the way the hearing aid is operating? Not yet, but it’s something we’re working on in research. How can we ultimately get a measure of effort and fatigue from the brain directly? But you’re using the evoked potentials, correct? And you’re doing some studies based on that? We’re doing research based on it, but that’s sort of offline. Okay. So it’s not yet ready to inform or check to make sure the hearing aid is operating optimally, but you’ve got it and you’ve got— you’re doing pupillometry as well. So this is all at research phase right now? That’s research phase. Yeah. But we’re using it to validate that we’re providing the brain with a better input. And that it can better do what it wants to do with these new technologies. Well, that’s what I wondered. Are you today using those studies to inform how the hearing aid is trained and programmed? Yeah. Okay.

So we have that constant exchange of information between early research development, technology development that sort of inform us of what to do with future solutions. Okay. And one of the other things you talked about was the long-term consequences of not having enough context in your daily life. And you use the example of wearing noise-canceling headphones a lot. Yeah. Tell me about that study, like, and how did it inform what you do? Yeah, so it’s still unpublished, but it’s UK researchers, and it’s been in media in Europe at least that They’ve studied how young people using noise-canceling headsets do in a difficult speech-in-noise task compared to people that are 50+. And what they saw, to their big surprise, was that because the people that are using the noise-canceling headset, despite having better hearing, they were poorer in this difficult task than the people that were 50+. That’s a really interesting study. And I suppose it’s also very appropriate here, right?

Because by maintaining contextual clues, you’re also making it easier for me to interpret and understand speech, but you’re also preserving that brain function that’s able to sort speech from noise. Exactly. Is that a good way of putting it? Yeah. And I think about how much energy that your brain needs to use to really understand what’s going on. And yes, we should do studies on that. It sounds like we’re going to start doing those types of things. But even on the panel today, there was a couple HCPs who had patients, and there was one I remember who just had Oticon Reveal and said it’s just easier to listen. And I started— I really keyed in on that because I think that is her— it’s just she’s working— her brain’s not working as hard.

to understand what’s going on around her versus in the past, which I think is like a leading indicator if that’s the case, that you do— if you kind of give that, give the sounds back to the brain, they’ll sort that out and go back to its natural way of interpreting. And that’s got to use a lot less brainpower than like really working on something. I’ll give you a very concrete example. So before I started my own company, I worked for Knowles for 10 years. And I started at Knowles in 2012, and I first got fitted in 2018. So I got fitted, and I was going to China constantly. And this would be like a 10-day set of meetings. Yeah, I’d get up early in the morning, I’d run, I’d have meetings all day. We’d go out to dinner with a customer or, you know, somebody else. It’s a long, long day. And, and I’m just go, go, go. And I could run rings around most people in terms of energy level.

But when I was done, I’d get on that 16-hour flight from Hong Kong to Chicago and I would just sleep. Mm-hmm. I get fitted, first trip to China, it’s done. And I— where’d all that energy come from? It was very obvious on a trip like that because that’s a very trying situation because you’re talking— I don’t speak Mandarin, so I’m talking to people with various levels of English fluency, some with accents that are unfamiliar to me. So you’re working hard to understand. Yeah. And it was so obvious after I was fitted for the first time how much energy I got back by doing that. Can I give you a concrete example? Sure. So my dad’s 86 years old. I’m definitely fitting him with Oticon Reveal. He’s been wearing hearing aids for almost 30 years, and it’s gotten to the point now where he’s still— he’s just isolating himself. He can’t— even enjoy just regular conversations. And it’s funny, last time I talked to him, my son graduated high school.

I was like, so how are your hearing aids doing? He’s like they’re not so good. And then my stepmom was like, they’re terrible. So I said, what do you mean? And he’s like, it’s so exhausting. It’s so tiring. And I’m— and he just told me, even in conversations, he can barely hear what’s going on if it’s not one-on-one. If it’s more than that, he struggles and his brain is probably maxed out even doing that. Yeah. And so I’m going to do my own study with my dad. See how he reacts to it. Because I think it will start like reenergizing and make it easier for him to like hear just pure speech at a basic level and then kind of go from there. Based on my experience, I would say so. And it gives him the ability to enjoy social situations much more. Yeah.

And interesting for working people, I often cite a study, simple in practice actually, is what they did was they took a cohort of people with hearing loss and a cohort of people with normal hearing, and with headphones on, gave them a delayed recall test. Read words, recall. The hearing loss group recalled half the words that the normal hearing people did. they reversed it. So they gave corrected audio to the hearing loss people and they gave simulated hearing loss to normal hearing people. You know what happened, right? It went totally the opposite way. And so if you’re talking about people still working, you’re talking about their career performance is really affected by the ability to hear well or not hear well. Yes. And we see that in our research. We’ve done this research actually a number of times with our different generations of technology that when people have well-fitted hearing aids with noise reduction that’s working for them, they remember more.

Because I mean, we free up the cognitive processing in the brain from making sense of sound to then actually detailed processing and storing in long-term memory so we can recall it later on. Yeah, I saw some brain scans showing how people with hearing loss, their frontal cortex is going crazy just trying to understand the words, right? Yeah, exactly. So you don’t have time to, think and process what you’re hearing. You’re just trying to hear. Yeah. And so that makes perfect sense. So when we talk about the device itself, you showed a standard RIC and that’s what you’re talking about. What other variations are available? In the Oticon Reveal? Yes. So it comes in 4 different levels and then a CROS version. You have a CROS version also? Yes. Yes. With all the same technology that Thomas Said on stage just right now. Okay, nice. Nice. And how about a superpower? Is it time to update your superpower? It is time to update that. Yeah. There you go. You heard it here first. Not today.

Not today. Maybe tomorrow, but not today. But yes, that’s 100% on the radar. As soon as possible, it’ll be available. Because, I mean, what you’re talking about strikes me as being especially important for people with more profound hearing loss. Yeah. So although I would say this product, this Oticon Reveal, has a pretty high power level to it, a pretty large fitting range. I was pretty amazed by that because it improved over Intent. Well, that was interesting, actually, because you showed a pretty high fitting range. So what you’re really saying is people who might previously have been candidates for a superpower Could go into the RIC. I think so, right? Would you say so? Maybe, maybe close, depending on sort of the configuration of their hearing loss. And we know clinicians always like to have a little bit of a headroom. So depending on all of those detailed considerations, maybe some of them could, because you’re right, as our technologies are maturing, we can provide more and more amplification in smaller devices. Okay.

So yeah, so there’s going to be some overlap between the two, right? Okay. And yeah, I totally get what you’re saying because these Zeals, they’ve been totally maxed out on everything. Like even Virginia was there when I got fitted and they were struggling to keep this one from breaking in the feedback because I’m out of bounds for it right now. So you don’t want to put a person in that situation normally, right? I was a special case because I wanted to try them. Yeah. But normally you don’t want to do that. So that’s going to inform the decision whether to go to super power or not. Exactly. So now you’ve been doing Auracast ever since the Zeal, and then you backfilled the Intent with it. And I was actually using Auricast in here in that reverberant room. Good stuff, right? Yeah, it worked really well. That’s a challenging room to try in. Challenging room to try, right?

I put the hearing aid volume down a few notches, and so I was getting more Auracast than natural sound. So it was like, well, you’re all there, and yet you still announced that you have a new connectivity platform. So what’s different? Well, so the new connectivity platform is basically like antenna, radio, wireless protocols, everything updated. So it’s much better at keeping a stable connection. And also the technology is now so strong with the updated antenna and antenna amplifiers and everything that we also have a better range. Okay, so you’re connecting like before. You’re doing MFi, you’re doing LE Audio, ASHA. ASHA, I think, is also available. Yep. Is also still there. And of course, Auracast too, but it’s now improved. So you haven’t done anything new in terms of connectivity. What you’ve done is improve the performance of the device. Yeah. So it’s the same protocols and basic sort of connectivity protocols we’re using, but the hardware has undergone major updates so that it will support those protocols in a way better way.

So no, I think that’s really important because I lead such a connected lifestyle. I mean, I’ll have hours of internet meetings, I’ll listen to a podcast, phone calls, Auracast when it’s available, which where I come from in the Chicago area is growing more and more. And so it’s really important to be able to support good stable connections in all of those. And that’s as much a That’s as much a part of many people’s lives as hearing face-to-face these days. So I’m really glad to hear that. And we know how important it is for people with hearing loss to stay connected to friends and family when they live at a distance, right? And yeah, then they can really have those phone calls and online meetings, whatever it is that they need. But that sound quality is just radically increasing with all these new connectivity opportunities. And I think with Auracast, I mean, 5 years from now or 2 years from now, I think it’s going to be proliferate.

It’s such an awesome technology, even for non-hearing impaired people. Like, it’s just, I think, going to— it’s going to— the the curve, I think, is going to take take off and be everywhere. Airports, sports bars, like any, any use case you can think of. 100%. I mean, I won’t go on about that one, but but I agree with you 100%. Right. So what else should we know about this device? What’s the battery life? For example, it’s the same as it it’s the same as it was. It’s like 24 hours. Yeah, right. It’s a full day with the intent, full day for 5 years. Okay. Yeah, so no sacrifice. And that includes streaming and the rest. Put some streaming in it sometime in a noisy situation, I’ll easily get a full day out of it. So we have a full day of use with 4 hours of streaming. And then people would be able to have that for the lifetime of the hearing aid, which is 4 or 5 years.

So you’ve got some headroom in it. So 5 years from now, I’ll still get all-day life out of it. Yeah. Okay. How about waterproof? Yeah. It’s the IP68 rating. It’s IP68. Yeah. That’s not formally waterproof. There’s no real standard for waterproof. Well, there is a crazy standard that nobody can live up to, but IP68 is close to— Yeah, exactly. Good enough. If I, if I’m out running and I get rained on, it’s going to be fine. Yeah. You know, I wear them, wear them out in the sea and they get splashed up, you know, fine. I will say one thing interesting that I’ve learned is when you ask about battery life and even like waterproof ratings, so to speak, is that I’m not on the R&D side, but on the R&D side, I would say the advancements are made to solve a specific problem. But you don’t compromise or reduce something else. So to get— usually there’s trade-offs in everything. I’m actually a mechanical engineer by trade.

But when you usually make this improvement, you usually like lose this piece of it. And what I’ve seen is that we do a really good job of never kind of taking things backwards. So at a minimum, you try to keep something the same. Like battery life is gonna be the same. These are constraints. When you’re designing something with an improvement. So you know what your job is. You have to have all-day battery life, right? Of course, yeah. But it’s like, but really, that’s the only thing I can think of. You just don’t compromise on any piece of it as it’s being designed for the goal that you’re trying to create. And how about wind resistance? Wind resistance? Or wind noise, right? Wind noise rejection, I guess, is what I want to say. Yeah. So that was improved in the Reveal. Yeah.

So we introduced a whole new way of doing wind prevention with Oticon Real, and that has now had quite a sizable improvement with the Reveals so that they will be able to handle more and more wind and people can still hear all the sounds that they want to access. You know, I started out life as an engineer, as an engineer. So I have to ask numbers like how much better? 10 dB of extra wind noise suppression is now available in the Reveals compared to previous devices. Okay, thank you. Yeah. And anything else I should know about it? Any other new features in Reveal versus Intent? Yeah, well, it actually also has feedback prevention updated so that clinicians can trust that they can always amplify as much as they need, but also fit the AI in any environment. Because that’s what we see if these feedback platforms are not really top-notch, then for instance, you won’t be able to fit the AI in high-gain situations.

So really, that’s why it’s so important that they are up to date so you can use the AI to clean up the sound whenever it’s needed. Okay, so this is how you’re getting a higher fitting range, in part because of the feedback cancelers updating. Yes. Okay, so When is the Reveal being released globally? Is it available now or is it being rolled out selectively? It’s being rolled out in phases. So I don’t know when the last country comes on live, but about fairly soon. This isn’t like many months between, but there’s just staggered launches across the world. Okay. Over what time period? Well, I know Canada is going to be in September. And so Europe, I believe, is in Q4, right? Europe is also in September. Many European countries started selling actually earlier in August. And then with the exception of those few countries where there are sort of regulatory delays, then it’s available globally already. Okay. And this is a question for both of you.

I mean, I have to say that the use of AI and DNNs in hearing aids in the last couple years has just made a world of difference. I think about it as being almost as big a leap as going from analog to digital hearing aids. Yeah. But how, how do you see the next couple of years? Like, what do you see is coming? Like, I know you’re not gonna reveal, you know, what you’re working on on the roadmap, but what do you expect to see a couple years from now as this gains more and more strength, as the D&Ns get better and better? I’ll tell the high level and you can get some details. So I think it’s just going to be deployed more and more. Like what we’ve used it now for, our philosophy we back up always is going back to enhancing the brain’s understanding of noise, sound, speech. So the algorithms that we use, I’m guessing, are going to get better, more refined.

And there’s just going to be improvement that you can just, with AI, the abilities, it’s an awesome tool. Obviously, we all know that for all of our life, but building that into the algorithms and making sense of sound and all these different things is just going to help us get better. Yeah, so you see further room for improvement with basically what you’re doing today? Well, I want to get back to someone with hearing loss goes back to when they didn’t have hearing loss. Wouldn’t that be nice? Well, get on it for me, please. But 5 years ago, if I told you AI could like plan out a whole vacation for you and tell you where to go in like 5 minutes, just tell it where you want to go and it can pop out an itinerary and book your tickets for you. Yeah, would I believe it? You wouldn’t believe it 5 years ago, right? So I absolutely think it’s possible to get back to natural hearing. Okay, interesting.

And I mean, your brain is already set up to do that. You just have to give it If you use the engineering analogy, you just got to get it the information for it to do its job. If you give it partial information, it’s going to do part of a job. So I think the AI can help out. So that’s my maybe inspirational view, but yeah. Yeah. Well, we have a lot of ideas and our engineers have a lot of ideas that they’re working on. Hard problems that people thought were impossible to solve. Only recently, right? So we want to deploy AI on a number of specific hearing-related problems that people with hearing loss are dealing with today. And we’ve got them lined up and we can see that it will be a big revolution for hearing aid technology over the coming 5 to 10 years. We are actually only getting started.

And so we see both in terms of new technological advancements giving us more advanced processing capabilities and then new types of algorithms being implemented. So the future is bright, and if people are struggling with specific problems, we want to provide big improvements to those over the coming years. Well, as a person who’s always struggled with noise, I mean, even corrected up until very recently was always a challenge, and now these models are making it easier. I can’t wait to try the Reveal. and see, but especially I’m looking forward to seeing what you do in, in the years ahead. So listen, I really appreciate you both joining me. Congratulations again. Awesome. Thanks for coming. Thank you very much. Yeah. And thanks to everyone for watching or listening to This Week in Hearing.